TESTIMONY OF SAM RUBY

The testimony of Sam Ruby was taken at 10:55 a.m., on May 29, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Sam Ruby was accompanied by his attorney, Phil Burleson.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Sam Ruby.
Mr. Ruby, my name is Leon D. Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the General Counsel of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, the joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the President's Commission in conformance with the executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you. I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular, as to you, Mr. Ruby, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and of the life of your brother, Jack Ruby, and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry.
Mr. Ruby, I believe that you appear here today by virtue of a letter addressed to you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, general counsel of the staff of the President's Commission. Did you receive that letter?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the day that you did receive it.
Mr. RUBY. I believe it was Tuesday.
Mr. HUBERT. Under the rules of the Commission you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of your deposition, but the rules also provide that you may waive that notice if you wish and testify right now. Do you wish to do so?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I do--I wish to testify.
Mr. HUBERT. I would like the record to show also that Mr. Phil Burleson, attorney at law, is present and representing Mr. Sam Ruby; is that correct?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, will you stand and take the oath, please? And raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. RUBY. Samuel David Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are you, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. 51.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you reside?
Mr. RUBY. At 11616 Jamestown Road, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Mr. RUBY. I am a washing machine repairman at washaterias.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Ruby, you have heretofore been interviewed by the FBI on four different occasions and I would like you to tell me about those. In order that we may proceed in that way, I wish to identify an interview of you on November 24, 1963, by FBI Agents Sayres [spelling] S-a-y-r-e-s, and Eckenrede. That interview consists of six pages--on the first page I have marked on the right margin the following: "Dallas, Texas, May 29, 1964, Exhibit No. 1, deposition of Sam Ruby," and I have placed my name beneath that and on the right-hand lower corner of each of the succeeding five pages I have placed my initials for the purpose of identification.
Now, I ask you if you have had occasion to read this document which I have identified as Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I have.
Mr. HUBERT. I would like you to express your opinion as to the correctness of that report of the interview?

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Mr. RUBY. They are correct as far as that is concerned.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any changes or any suggestions or modifications in any way that you wish to make with respect to that statement?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think he has them.
Mr. BURLESON. On page 6; in previously going over this, Mr. Hubert, I think there are some things he would like to comment on and I will ask him about it.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. On page 6, the first paragraph--there is a statement that "This man's name was Leo, last name unknown. Jack fired this man because he said he was stealing from him."
I'll ask you whether or not you now have found out or since that time, have found out Leo's last name?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I found out his name.
Mr. BURLESON. What is that?
Mr. RUBY. Torti [spelling] T-o-r-t-i; I believe is the way he spells it.
Mr. BURLESON. And as to the second statement there about Jack firing this man, do you now know that that was not the situation?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I found out that he was not quite competent as Jack would have him and there were a few things that he didn't take care of, in other words, when my brother told him to do it and he neglected to do a few things.
Mr. BURLESON. And that was the reason for the firing of Torti rather than stealing?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. BURLESON. And subject to that correction you told Mr. Hubert, everything else appeared to be correct, as I understand it, now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it correct to state that when you made the statement that you have just modified on page 6 of Exhibit No. 1 that you had the impression that the man had been fired because he had been stealing from Jack and that impression has been clarified since that; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How was it clarified?
Mr. RUBY. Well, since talking to Jack and at the time Jack mentioned a few things that--when I come to the club, which I did a few times to visit him and see the show and to watch the admission being taken and put in the register properly, and that gave me the impression that maybe he just wanted to see that maybe Leo didn't forget to do those things.
Mr. HUBERT. You have since talked to your brother Jack and he has clarified this matter, so that you are now able to state that your present understanding is that it was not because of an allegation of stealing. but rather because he was incompetent; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Right; and Jack's idea about managing the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you another report of an interview of you by FBI Agent Alfred Sayres on November 27, 1963, which I have marked for identification as follows: "Dallas, Texas, May 29, 1963, Exhibit No. 2, deposition of Sam Ruby," and I have signed my name and all of which appears in the right margin of this one page document and I ask you the same question with respect to that, that is, if it is correct?
Mr. RUBY. Which paragraph is that?
Mr. HUBERT. The entire document--I am speaking of the entire document--I think you have just read it.
Mr. BURLESON. That's the one you said was all right.
Mr. RUBY (reading instrument referred to). I think I recall when Jack was hospitalized, I think it was in Chicago.
Mr. BURLESON. All right, let me ask you a question--in regard to the second paragraph which says--"He said he knows of no time when Jack Ruby has ever been hospitalized for any reason." Does something come to your mind in reference to the hospitalization of Jack?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he was struck in back of the head, I think he was scalping tickets at one of the sporting events--at football or one of those events in Chicago-and the police officer told him not to scalp, told him to leave the premises where the sporting event was being held, and Jack refused to do so,

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and anyway--I don't know what the deal was, but Jack was hit on the back of the head with a club or something like that, and he had a big bandage on the back of his head, and he was hospitalized then, but I don't remember what year it was--I don't remember.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, with that amplification or correction of Exhibit No. 2, is the exhibit otherwise correct?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they tell me I talked to the family and they say that my mother was hospitalized in Elgin.
Mr. BURLESON. All right; let me ask you--you are now referring to the third paragraph and a sentence in there that says, "This was the Dunning Hospital on Irving Boulevard in Chicago?"
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. BURLESON. You have subsequently found out that it may have been a different hospital?
Mr. RUBY. Right; after I talked to some members of the family and they say it was in Elgin, Ill., which is a mental hospital.
Mr. BURLESON. And are there any other corrections or additions you want to make to that statement?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I found out since, that my sister, Eileen, had somewhat of a nervous breakdown since she came here to visit during the trial.
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you--you are now referring to the last paragraph that says, "He knows of no other indications of any mental illnesses in his family." What have you found out since you made that statement?
Mr. RUBY. My sister Eileen was treated by a doctor during--following a nervous breakdown some years ago--we found out during the course of the trial when she was here.
Mr. BURLESON. Did you find out anything about Earl having any type of mental disorder, either in the service or subsequent thereto?
Mr. RUBY. Well, here it is.
Mr. BURLESON. You have that in there?
Mr. RUNT. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where your sister was hospitalized or treated?
Mr. RUBY. My sister Eileen Kaminsky--no; I don't, but she did mention she was having some difficulty.
Mr. HUBERT. But you got that information from her?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you didn't know it at the time of the interview covered by Exhibit No. 2, to wit: November 27, 1963?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Other than that, this document is correct, that is Exhibit No. 2, is that right?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you Exhibit No. 3, which you have already read, and that Exhibit No. 3 is an interview of you by Alfred Sayres, having been dated November 29. I have marked it for identification as follows: "Dallas, Tex., May 29, 1964, as Exhibit No. 3 to the deposition of Sam Ruby," and I have signed my name below it and I ask you if that document is correct?
Mr. RUBY (reading instrument referred to). Well, the first paragraph there?
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you--in reference to the first paragraph starting with "Samuel David Ruby, 11616 Jamestown Road, Dallas, Tex., advised that he has no interest financial or administrative in the S & R Corp. He further advised that he has no interest financial or administrative in the Carousel Club or in the Club Vegas in Dallas, Tex. which clubs are operated by his brother, Jack Ruby. He further advised that he is not aware that his name has ever appeared on any document as an officer in the S & R Corp., in any way in the operation of the Carousel Club or the Club Vegas."
Have you, since you made that statement back on the 29th of November 1963, been informed of some facts that are contrary to what you stated at that time, and do you wish to explain to Mr. Hubert what that is?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I found out from Ralph Paul, who was also a stockholder, that I was a member of the corporation and that I was issued shares of stock in the S & R Corp., but I have never seen them, I have never received them or have

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never seen any of the corporation papers, so I am just taking his word for it, and I still don't know, but they say it and also in the Vegas Club, I hold a chattel mortgage on that, which has not fully been paid off. I don't know whether you would consider that a financial interest in that or not. Jack never paid me off the full amount.
Mr. HUBERT. Does that have to do with reference to a loan that had been made by you to him?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And at an earlier date upon which you got a judgment in your favor?
Mr. RUBY. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, we will touch upon that a little later, and I think that will be clarified. It is a fact, I take it, until you were advised by Mr. Paul that your name appeared on the corporate papers, you didn't know anything about it until then?
Mr. RUBY. No; this last, this third paragraph, I think I found out from my brother Earl.
Mr. BURLESON. All right, let me make reference to a particular sentence in there. In the third paragraph of the statement, "He further advised that sometime during the fall or early winter of 1960, his sister, Marion Caroll, visited in Dallas and while here loaned Jack Ruby a fairly large sum of money. He said she later regretted making this loan and his brother Earl came to Dallas sometime in the spring of 1961 for the purpose of recovering the amount of this loan for Marion. He said he does not know if Earl was successful in this attempt or if Earl paid Marion the amount of the loan and thereby became a creditor of Jack Ruby."
What have you found out since making that statement that might make some difference?
Mr. RUBY. Well, part of that I believe is true--Earl did come down here to try to get some of that money back, but I also found out that he let Jack have some money of his own because Jack was having some financial difficulties with the Carousel Club. It was changed then and I think it was the Sovereign Club or the Carousel.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did you find that out from?
Mr. RUBY. From Earl.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say how much?
Mr. RUBY. No; he didn't say--he may have said, but I don't recall, but I know he says he let him have some money.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, are there any other changes or corrections to Exhibit No. 3?
Mr. RUBY. No; if he has an interest--I don't know whether he has an interest if it's in writing--he may have.
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you--are you referring to the fourth paragraph that says, "He says he does not know whether or not Earl Ruby has a financial interest in the Carousel Club or the Club Vegas at Dallas, but if he does have, this interest may have arisen out of the above-mentioned loan."
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that's right--that is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. That is correct?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is correct, but I don't know about it.
Mr. BURLESON. That's what you have heard?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that all as to Exhibit No. 3, then?
Mr. RUBY. That's right--well, now----
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you this--you are now referring to the last paragraph. "He concluded by stating that he has no knowledge of the financial or corporate structures of the S & R Corporation or of the Carousel Club or Club Vegas in Dallas, Tex." Do you want to change that in the light of what you have heard since that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Let's put it this way--when that statement was given, that was true, you did not have that knowledge?
Mr. RUBY. That's right.

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Mr. HUBERT. What you want to say now is that you have found out something since?
Mr. RUBY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you tell us what it is?
Mr. RUBY. I found out that a certain amount of shares were issued to me in the S & R Corp. and that I was a vice president in the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And you did not know that at the time you made this statement?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you find out those facts from?
Mr. RUBY. From Ralph Paul.
Mr. HUBERT. And that is the only source of your information, is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen the shares?
Mr. RUBY. No; I never have seen them.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen any of the books or papers of the corporation that would indicate it?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But your sole source of information as to your present statement is the information obtained from Ralph Paul?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you made any other inquiry about the matter?
Mr. RUBY. Well, we tried looking through the Carousel Club files up there--they had these metal files. We went through those and we couldn't find any papers, any corporation papers and no one of the attorneys seemed to have them at the time and Stanley Kaufman, who was a personal friend of his, and he is an attorney here in town, he didn't have them and he didn't know where they were, and we couldn't locate them.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you invest any money for the purchase of the shares of stock which apparently might have been issued to you?
Mr. RUBY. No; I didn't invest any. Jack may have transferred some of the money that he owed me as a financial transaction.
Mr. HUBERT. What you mean is that he owed you some money and he may have issued the stock to you?
Mr. RUBY. To cover that.
Mr. HUBERT. As a way of paying the loan?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case he didn't tell you he was doing so?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any further comments as to Exhibit No. 3?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a document which purports to be a report of an interview of you by Alfred Sayres, FBI agent, on December 5, 1963, and for the purpose of identification I have marked that document, "Dallas, Tex., May 29, 1964, Exhibit No. 4 of the deposition of Sam Ruby," and I have signed my name below that, and it consists of one page, and I ask you the same question with respect to that document?
Mr. RUBY. Well this first paragraph--I found out that he had--that he did make a trip to Cuba.
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you--you are referring to the first paragraph which starts off: "Samuel David Ruby, 11616 Jamestown Road, Dallas, Tex., advised telephonically that he knows of no trip to Cuba made by Jack Ruby at any time. It was explained to Mr. Ruby that if such a trip were made it had been alleged Jack Ruby made the trip with a gambler from Fort Worth, Texas. He suggested that such a person may have been a man by the name of McWillie whom he has heard mentioned as a gambler and a friend of Jack Ruby." What do you now know in reference to that, that you have found out since that time?
Mr. RUBY. Well, from Jack himself---this was in the Dallas County Courthouse in jail that Mr. McWillie sent him the airplane tickets for him to go to Cuba and to be his guest while he was there.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you get that information from Jack Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. I don't know--sometime ago--I believe it was during the trial--during the course of the trial.

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Mr. HUBERT. You visited him at the Dallas County Jail, is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. And during the course of that conversation he told you that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ask him about it or did he volunteer the information?
Mr. RUBY. I asked him about it.
Mr. HUBERT. And you think that was during the trial but before the verdict?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. About what part of the trial--do you remember?
Mr. RUBY. It was more or less during the beginning of it--most likely.
Mr. HUBERT. In February?
Mr. RUBY. Probably was.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you anything else to say about Exhibit No. 4?
Mr. RUBY. Everything is all right on it.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that your name and Jack's--the family name was Rubenstein.
Mr. RUBY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. And that you changed your name to Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was that change made?
Mr. RUBY. In Chicago, Ill.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was by a regular court proceeding in the courts of Illinois?
Mr. RUBY. Right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And did you know that Jack had also changed his name?
Mr. RUBY. I didn't know definitely whether he changed it legally.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know that your brother Earl had changed his name?
Mr. RUBY. We changed ours at the same time. We were in business together.
Mr. HUBERT. What I wanted to ask you is whether or not the change of name of you and Earl and Jack was by a common understanding, that you all would change your name?
Mr. RUBY. No; just Earl and I had a common understanding. We were in business together at the same time and we used the same attorney.
Mr. HUBERT. What business was that that you were in?
Mr. RUBY. We were in the advertising specialty manufacturing business.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of it?
Mr. RUBY. Earl Products Co.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it a corporation?
Mr. RUBY. No; just a company.
Mr. HUBERT. A trade name?
Mr. RUBY. A trade name.
Mr. HUBERT. Was Jack in that company?
Mr. RUBY. He was. He was in the company for about 2 years, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was during what years?
Mr. RUBY. 1946 and 1947.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, how did he come to leave it?
Mr. RUBY. We had a little difference as to the policies of the company and Earl and I more or less agreed on the way it should be run and Jack had other ideas, and, of course, when we couldn't agree, we bought him out.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you pay him?
Mr. RUBY. I believe it was about $14,000.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, was that paid in cash?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; it was cash.
Mr. HUBERT. After you bought him out and you paid him in cash, did he come to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say he came almost immediately?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; in fact I think he may have made some trips here before we sold out, before he sold out to us--I'm not sure about that, but it seems like he had come down here to visit my sister Eva--Eva L. Grant.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not when he

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got here he had approximately $14,000 in cash, that is to say, when he came to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Well----
Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it this way--you knew he had the $14,000--you don't know whether he had any debts or anything that would have consumed that $14,000, is that what you are saying?
Mr. RUBY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when did you move to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. In 1955--I moved here in July 1955.
Mr. HUBERT. And what was the occasion for your coming here?
Mr. RUBY. I sold out to my brother Earl in March of 1955 and at that time my youngest boy, Brian, had a little asthma difficulty and my sister Eva, who was residing in Chicago at the time, suggested that I come to Dallas and look into the building of homes in Dallas. She had some friends who were in the business of building homes, and I did build one residence in Oak Cliff, that is part of Dallas, in association with this lady friend of hers, and subsequently this woman I built the home with, she liked the home so well she bought it from me and I realized at the time that these building tradesmen here were kind of hard to get along with. In other words, they--some of them would drink on the job and material would be missing from the job and I thought I would rather get into something else that I was more familiar with.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as I understand it, then, after you sold your interest to Earl, you made the decision to move to Dallas on a permanent basis?
Mr. RUBY. I came down here for a visit first.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you decide to make this your home--to make Dallas your home?
Mr. RUBY. After I sold out the company to Earl in March, I came down here in April.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that what you considered to be your permanent move to Dallas--in April?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I came down here for a visit and I decided I liked Dallas very much and I went back up north and, of course, at that time I was in the business of building this home and I told my wife--I called her on the phone and told her that we are going to move to Dallas and I went up there in the latter part of June and helped pack our furnishings and belongings and had them moved down here by truck.
Mr. HUBERT. You had already finished building the home here you were talking about?
Mr. RUBY. No; I was in the process of building it.
Mr. HUBERT. After you moved down here and that was in the summer of 1955, as I understand you, and after you had finished this building venture which you decided you didn't want to continue in, what business did you go into by way of making a living?
Mr. RUBY. I went into--it was also the advertising specialty business--then with two fellows who were at that time engaged in it. They had a company under the trade name of Atlas American Specialties Co., I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of the two men you are speaking of?
Mr. RUBY. One was Sam Lasser (spelling) L-a-s-s-e-r, and the other fellow was named Norman Weisbrod.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have covered those transactions in your statements.
Mr. RUBY. I believe I have--I don't think they asked me those questions, although I did mention that they were friends of Jack's.
Mr. HUBERT. But you actually were business partners with them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that last?
Mr. RUBY. That lasted until June 1956.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, what was the occasion of breaking that up, or what happened?
Mr. RUBY. We manufactured a product that wasn't engineered or designed properly and we had a lot of rejects and we were having to pay freight both ways and----

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Mr. HUBERT. What was the product?
Mr. RUBY. It was this plastic spinner that you see on these wires in front of service stations and used car lots and the weather--when they are spinning around would force them to crack in half and they would fall on the cars and maybe damage them and they weren't satisfied with them and we found out later that this man who made our mould for us didn't design it properly.
Mr. HUBERT. Where are Lasser and Weisbrod now, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. They are partners in the wholesale distributing business of sunglasses.
Mr. HUBERT. In what city?
Mr. RUBY. In Dallas--I believe the name is Mode (spelling) M-o-d-e, Imports.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have occasion to see those people frequently?
Mr. RUBY. No; I haven't seen those people in maybe--maybe for about 3 years.
Mr. HUBERT. They were friends of Jack's?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack get you interested in this venture with these two men?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he introduced me to them and he did say that they had a very good business and that they were hard working fellows.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you invest any money with them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. How much?
Mr. RUBY. $3,500.
Mr. HUBERT. When you dissolved, did they buy you out?
Mr. RUBY. No; the whole company was dissolved. We just liquidated it. We paid all of our debts.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any part of the investment returned to you?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So, you lost the $3,500 in that venture?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. After that was completed, what did you do?
Mr. RUBY. In the latter part of 1956, I investigated this coin-operated washateria business and I succeeded in purchasing and in installing a new coin-operated washateria at 3608 Oak Lawn in Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of it?
Mr. RUBY. It was Speedy Wash, I believe it was.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was just a trade name?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you borrowed some money from some banks to do that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I borrowed some money from some banks.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any other ventures since that, or is that still in existence?
Mr. RUBY. No; I lost my lease--my lease was up and Ward's Drug Store next door somehow managed to get the lease on the store and, of course, I had to vacate and discontinue that place, but while I had that place of business I purchased the Bonnie Washateria at 2002 East 11th Street in Dallas and I also purchased another washateria at 2524 North Fitzhugh in Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you still operate those?
Mr. RUBY. No; I sold both of those.
Mr. HUBERT. How long ago?
Mr. RUBY. Well, this one at 2425 North Fitzhugh was the Ruby Washateria and I sold that 2 years ago last March--let me see--that would be 1962, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. In March 1962.
Mr. HUBERT. That was the last one you sold?
Mr. RUBY. No; that was the Ruby Washateria. Then, the Bonnie Washateria, was at 2002 East 11th Street, I sold just last December, I believe it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you sell that to?
Mr. RUBY. To a Mr. George Cernorsky.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the purpose of your selling it?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I had a lot of competition--there was a new washateria opened up there on the street from me about a block away next to a supermarket

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and I was sort of in an isolated corner myself and also I was at that time engaged in extensive repair work and I tried to go more into the repair of washing machines and I thought it was taking a lot of my time and I wasn't making any money there and in fact I was losing money, and I thought--why have something like that on your hands and I would rather devote my time to repair work.
Mr. HUBERT. And that's what you have done?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that's what you are doing now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; but I also since that time--I also purchased a little manufacturing business in Coppell, Tex., which of all days, I purchased it on November 20, 1963.
Mr. HUBERT. What kind of business is that?
Mr. RUBY. It was a little stuffed animal business and the name of the company was the Autographic Mascots that they use around these colleges and universities and high schools--all of these schools have little mascots, you know, and the purpose was to have these kids--these various classes--have their classmates autograph them as sort of a remembrance or souvenir of their school days.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you still operating that?
Mr. RUBY. No; we sold that--we just sold that recently--April the 15th this party took over complete possession of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you sell it to?
Mr. RUBY. To Mrs. M. Frances Cole. I believe her name is.
Mr. HUBERT. C-o-l-e (spelling)?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is she operating it now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that you loaned some money to Jack in 1955; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. How much and under what circumstances?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he said he was having difficulty in paying his Federal excise taxes and I let him have $1,000, and then sometime later--that was probably in May or June of 1955 when I let him have the $1,000, and then sometime later--that was probably May or June when I let him have the $1,000 and later that summer, it may have been in July or August, I let him have $4,500, and he had some more difficulty with the Government on his Federal excise tax and he had to pay off these taxes or they would have padlocked his club--it was the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. When you made these loans to Jack, did you receive any evidence of the loan, such as a note?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; I had him make out a bill of sale to me for the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that recorded in any way?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think I still have it at home--I think I still have it at home. I don't remember whether it was recorded or not--the attorney made it out.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand that you had to file a legal proceeding against Jack in order to recover your money?
Mr. RUBY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. A judgment for it?
Mr. RUBY. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a contested suit--did you file suit against him?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. This bill of sale, was that sort of a security device or actual transaction of sale?
Mr. RUBY. It was an actual transaction of sale and also a security.
Mr. HUBERT. What you did--you sued on the note, I assume, that was involved; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. No; we sued that I was the legal owner of the business and that he told me he would--in December he said he would purchase the club from me. He wasn't satisfied with me as a partner and he said he was going to buy me out, but he failed to meet his financial promises and so I kept calling him and

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so I wasn't getting any satisfaction and I hired an attorney, Mr. Harold I. Berman.
Mr. HUBERT. And then he filed suit on your behalf?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he obtained a judgment?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a contested suit or did it go by default?
Mr. RUBY. It was contested--he had his attorney there, Mr. Klepak.
Mr. HUBERT. He actually went to trial?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you won the case?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And the result of the judgment was that you were declared to be the owner of the Vegas; is that it?
Mr. RUBY. Well, that Jack should--he agreed to pay me the amount of money he owed me, which at that time amounted to about $4,500. He had paid me some money.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that after you obtained the judgment that he agreed to pay you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, it was during the judgment--that's the way we settled it in court.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the case was compromised, was it?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And the compromise was that he agreed to pay you--what sum of money?
Mr. RUBY. $4,500---that was the balance that he owed me at the time--at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Then didn't he then execute a note to you or was that just simply part of the judgment?
Mr. RUBY. That was part of the judgment and we have a legal document showing that the judgment was entered and agreed upon and I think was signed by the judge, and I have that document at home. It's still on file in the records building--it has never been removed.
Mr. HUBERT. Has the $4,500 been paid off?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How much is yet due upon it?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, about $1,300 or so.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it to be paid off in installments or any period of time or just what was the arrangement or compromise made?
Mr. RUBY. I believe he gave me a thousand dollars in the Court that day and they had to take a hundred dollars off for his attorney--his attorney wanted a hundred dollars from that thousand dollars, and so I only received $900 and the rest was, I believe, to be paid off in $200 monthly installments.
Mr. HUBERT. So, that in any case there now remains a balance of $1,300 due on that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever live in Youngstown, Ohio?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. During what period?
Mr. RUBY. From 1939 to 1941. I registered there for the draft.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation there?
Mr. RUBY. I was what they call a siding applicator--you know--these siding manufacturers like Johns-Manville and Ruberoid and these various other siding manufacturers. I worked for a construction company and we secured contracts and I was one of their--what they call--shingle applicator.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of the company? Do you recall?
Mr. RUBY. The National Improvement Company.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you work with it only?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was for a period of 2 years?
Mr. RUBY. I think it was 3 years--1939, inclusive--1939 to 1941.
Mr. HUBERT. And then you went into the draft?

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Mr. RUBY. And then I worked in Chicago for a few months and then I went and enlisted in the Navy in February 1942, and they turned me down because of my eyes, and I went to the draft board and tried to find out how soon my number was coming up and they took my name and address and it was within the next few days that they let me know that they wanted me to come down for an examination.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Ralph Paul?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; very well.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you known him?
Mr. RUBY. Well, practically since I have been in Dallas--since 1955, I would say.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him?
Mr. RUBY. Through Jack at the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever in partnerships with him yourself?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir--I forgot to mention that. I just recall that now. We were in an ice cream business venture.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of that; do you know?
Mr. RUBY. I think it was the Rainbow Ice Cream Palace.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was it located?
Mr. RUBY. In Wynnewood Shopping Center.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened to that venture?
Mr. RUBY. It just wasn't successful.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did it last?
Mr. RUBY. Well, let's see--about 4 months I believe March, April, May, and June I think it only lasted 4 months.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any other business arrangements or enterprises with Paul?
Mr. RUBY. No--but I was in another business with a fellow named Robert Eisman.
Mr. HUBERT. I-s-m-a-n [spelling]?
Mr. RUBY. No--[spelling] E-i-s-m-a-n.
Mr. HUBERT. What was that business?
Mr. RUBY. Washateria---we were partners in a coin-operated business--- washateria at the time two of them.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of this?
Mr. RUBY. One was the what was the name on it--it was on 1713 South Ervay Street.
Mr. HUBERT. That was different from the other two you have mentioned here?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that arrangement last?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, about 3 years.
Mr. HUBERT. When was it dissolved?
Mr. RUBY. This is 1964 that must have been in March 1960, or 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. Is this man Eisman still in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. No; he's living in Fort Worth at the present time--he is in the washateria--not washateria, but coin-operated washing machines at the present time.
Mr. HUBERT. What caused you to dissolve that arrangement with Mr. Eisman?
Mr. RUBY. We had an awful lot of vandalism there in that neighborhood. They cut down water hoses and they would break into the machines and there was just too much vandalism to be profitable.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever been charged or convicted of any felonies?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What has been your relationship with Jack since you came to live in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. How do you mean that?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as brothers--do you visit socially often--you have told us about some of the financial matters between you and I was wondering what was the personal relationship between you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, outside of that difference we had about the club, he used to come over and visit us for the Jewish holidays and sometimes we would invite him over for an evening to dinner.

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Mr. HUBERT. On the average, how often did you see him a year, for instance?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I would see him, oh, maybe anywhere from three to six times a year.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have other contacts with him by phone or otherwise?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; we talked to him on the phone on different occasions. There was nothing important--I mean--just about maybe something about his family or how he was doing or inquire about the children.
Mr. HUBERT. What about your relationship with his sister, Mrs. Eva Grant?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I have seen her more often and we are off and on like brothers and sisters and we argue at different times and maybe in a week or so we'll forget about it and make up. She has her own views on things.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to see Jack during the period September 25 through November 24, 1963?
Mr. RUBY. September--you say?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. Yes--September 25, yes, I believe I did. I may have seen him at the club one night and then on one occasion, I remember it was the week of Halloween, because the man I was working for went out of town and Jack called me--he called me--I don't know whether he called me or my wife called me, and wanted me to go to Fort Worth with him to look at this twistboard factory which he was handling as a distributor at that time and I wasn't too anxious to go, but he insisted and he said maybe if that distributing business went all right, he would like me to become interested in that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go with him then?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I did. I had some work but I thought I could make it up either later in the day or the following day--just repairing washing machines. I was working for a man that had three washaterias at the time and I took a ride with him to Fort Worth to see this manufacturing plant.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you enter into the venture with Jack?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know to what extent he did?
Mr. RUBY. No; he told me that he was a distributor for these boards and he was thinking maybe of going into the manufacture of them.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he tell you that?
Mr. RUBY. At that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether your brother Earl had any interest in it?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't know to this moment whether he does?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Jack never mentioned that Earl might be interested?
Mr. RUBY. No--no; he never mentioned one way or the other whether Earl would be interested.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall whether you had any contact whatsoever with Jack during the periods, say, from the 16th of November through the 24th of November--that would be about the week before the President died until Oswald was shot?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think he called me on the phone a few times and wanted me to go visit my sister Eva in the hospital.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you remember any other contacts between you and Jack other than the one you just mentioned concerning visiting your sister in the hospital?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he may have called me twice on the phone. I didn't see him during that period. The last time I saw him was the week of Halloween--it was on a Wednesday, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, then, the last time you saw him was before Oswald was shot?
Mr. RUBY. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. That was approximately a month or 4 weeks before Oswald was shot?
Mr. RUBY. That's right;before.

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Mr. HUBERT. And you recall at least one telephone conversation which you have just made reference to about visiting your sister in the hospital?
Mr. RUBY. Yes--he was very upset about me not going. I promised him I would go and then I happened to be very busy working for this washateria owner and I thought it was more important I stay at my job and maybe go at night, but he became very upset about me not going and sort of became abusive.
Mr. HUBERT. That was all over the phone?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he contact you after the President was shot?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir--no, he didn't contact me.
Mr. HUBERT. Did your sister do so?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, between November 22d and the time Oswald was shot, you had no communication of any sort whatsoever with either your sister, Eva Grant, or your brother, Jack Ruby; is that right?
Mr. RUBY. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware of his reaction to the President's death during the period November 22 through November 24?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I had no idea. I was busy at the time--I was working for this man, Mr. Dean, and I also was doing repair work at night and I was working pretty late at night and I would get home late and get up early in the morning and had to be at the job at 8 and so my days and nights were fully occupied at that time and previous to that, too.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have stated in one of these statements that Mr. Paul said he was going to give you 50 percent of the stock of the S & R Corp.; did he say why he was going to do that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; that was after Judge Sterrett denied an application for a new license and he wanted to turn his 50 percent over to me so that I should have the obligations of the club, which I wasn't in favor of because I didn't have the financial backing to take it over. I have never received that 50 percent.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did he want to give it to you?
Mr. RUBY. So that he wouldn't have to assume any financial responsibilities incurred by the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And you refused it?
Mr. RUBY. I didn't refuse him at the time, but I didn't agree one way or the other, but I suggested my sister Eva take over the 50 percent of the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. Were any shares of stock ever delivered to you?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; not any shares.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Burleson, do you have any questions you would like to ask of Mr. Ruby?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes. First, Sam, have you, since this incident occurred back on November 24, 1963, had an occasion to have any threats on your life, your well-being, your future or that of your children, or your family?
Mr. RUBY. Well, there was one man that called and said he was a friend of Jack's and he wanted to come over and he said that he was from up North--I believe he was from Minnesota and he had come down here to look for a job--he wanted to get a job and he was a friend of Jack's and it didn't sound sensible or logical and he had talked to my wife, and we didn't give him our address or any other information and he said he wanted to talk to Jack.
Mr. BURLESON. But you have had no direct threats?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. When was this occurrence?
Mr. RUBY. The conversation--well, my wife would know more about that, I believe, since she talked to him--I believe it was in December.
Mr. HUBERT. You have never heard any more from this individual?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, you have been visiting Jack recently, have you not, in jail?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what you found Jack's condition to be since the verdict and at the present time?
Mr. RUBY. Well, to be frank with you, I always thought there was something

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odd about Jack, but I thought he was just the type of a person that's hard to get along with and that was before--years ago--but since I have been visiting him lately, his mental condition has deteriorated very rapidly. He keeps saying that people are being killed in the streets and he hears screams in the building of people being slaughtered.
Mr. BURLESON. Are these just people or are these Jewish people?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he says, "People," and then he says "Jewish people" and he always imagines that Earl is killed and his children's bodies are being dismembered.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he say anything about Eva?
Mr. RUBY. No; he tells me to leave and sell my home and get out of Dallas. He says that the police hate him here.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he tell you to do anything as far as self-destruction is concerned?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he has done that quite a few times. He says he is going to take his life and I've tried to talk him out of it, and tell him everything will be all right.
Mr. HUBERT. He said he was going to take his own life?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; and I have never heard him talk like that before.
Mr. BURLESON. Does he appear to be normal to you?
Mr. RUBY. No; he has that--I don't know how to describe his look, but he has sort of a look of a person that is being tortured or tormented by something and I don't know what you would call it, but it is sort of a--he has that look in his face of not seeing you, like he is looking--staring at you but not seeing you.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he recognize you?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he does.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you last see him?
Mr. RUBY. Last Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times since his conviction have you seen him prior to last Sunday?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I have seen him at least once a week.
Mr. HUBERT. And this condition that you have described that he has, did it exist right after the conviction or was it a progressive matter?
Mr. RUBY. Well, it has been progressive and during the course of the bond hearing and the change of venue and the jurors and the trial itself--he didn't seem to communicate with me very much. He didn't have anything to say to me, so to speak, like he didn't have all of his faculties, you might say.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, let me ask you--do you know anything about the financial situation of the so-called defense fund--the money that has come in for the defense of Jack Ruby, have you had anything to do with it yourself?
Mr. RUBY. No; I had nothing to do with it, but I understand they sold a story. Do you want to know about that?
Mr. BURLESON. Well, we know about that. That's the newspaper story that this Woodfield fellow bought?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. BURLESON. Have you personally received any money from any source from persons who have contributed it to you to use in the defense fund?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You have not received even any money in the mail; is that right?
Mr. RUBY. Not one penny.
Mr. BURLESON. And no one has given you any to be utilized for the defense?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. Have you contributed any of your own, other than the expense that you have been out personally during the trial and things of that nature, have you contributed any?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. And have you heard from any members of the family who are maybe more aware of it than you are that many large sums have come other than this one for the sale of the news story?

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Mr. RUBY. Yes; I heard that one come in from one of Jack's friends in Chicago.
Mr. BURLESON. Is that the $250?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was the friend, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. Kelman, I think his name is Joe Kelman.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that man?
Mr. RUBY. Not personally; I met his brother years ago. His brother was a personal friend of Jack's, Morris Kelman, and they are, I believe, in the auto windshield glass manufacturing business in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Then, I believe there was another check of some sum from Walter Winchell?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how much that was?
Mr. RUBY. My sister Eva said it was for $100.
Mr. BURLESON. You were reported as saying to some news media that there was several thousand dollars?
Mr. RUBY. I didn't say that. I said it was very generous--I didn't give any amount. I didn't even say whether it was a dollar or what amount it was.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you know of any other sums of money that may have come in, of any substantial sum?
Mr. RUBY. No; I don't.
Mr. BURLESON. That's all I have. I need to go off the record for a moment. I need to talk to Mr. Ruby on a matter that we had not completely discussed.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Would you like to leave the room for your conference?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes; please.
(At this point counsel Burleson and the witness, Sam Ruby, left the conference room for approximately 10 minutes, returned thereto, and the proceedings of Mr. Ruby's deposition continued as follows.)
Mr. BURLESON. I would like to go back on the record and ask you, Mr. Ruby, is there anything you would like to bring out--anything that you would like to tell Mr. Hubert here on any version of the case, either something we have already talked about, to amplify, explain that, or either something new--some new area that you feel like that he would be interested in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I don't know, except that I talked to some of the people from the Liquor Commission, the Texas State Liquor Commission, and they think that he may have felt sorry for the Tippit family as well as the Kennedy family, and he always took it personally when a police officer was killed. I mean, he made it his business to contribute something financially when an officer was killed.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they are up at the Liquor Commission in Oak Cliff--I don't think I know that just now.
Mr. BURLESON. That would be the Liquor Control Board--some of the personnel there?
Mr. RUBY. I believe that's it.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you know their names?
Mr. RUBY. I believe one was Johnny Cranks.
Mr. HUBERT. When was this told to you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they called me up there to inquire whether I was a member of the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And then they volunteered their opinion as to what his motivation was?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that was what they thought and I talked to Jack a few times at the county jail and he says he felt very sorry for the Kennedy family.
Mr. BURLESON. Did Jack ever tell you why he shot Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. No; he never mentioned his name to me. He never mentioned his name.
Mr. BURLESON. You were in the service?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. I know one of Jack's brothers was in the intelligence?

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Mr. RUBY. I was in the Army intelligence.
Mr. BURLESON. You were in the Army intelligence--for how long?
Mr. RUBY. Well, we were stationed at Langley Field in 1942 and 1943 and a Captain Southern swore me in as an agent, to keep an eye on Communists and Nazi saboteurs and to see whether anybody was leaving subversive literature around for the boys to read, and if I did see anybody acting suspicious to write a letter in, to a certain box number in Newport News, Va., which was about 20 miles away from Langley Field, and have a general theme, in fact, he says he checked up on my family history and all of the members of the family, and to write just like I am writing to my family, in fact he mentioned my brother Jack and write a letter like you are writing, "Dear Brother Jack: Last night we went to town and we had a few beers and we went to a movie and had a few dances and Pvt. John Smith has been acting kind of queer lately," and he said somewhere in the letter mention that and they would take care of it from then on, and I had to sign my name Johnny Newman.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the captain's first name; do you recall?
Mr. RUBY. I don't recall his first name, but his name was Southern.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell it?
Mr. RUBY. S-o-u-t-h-e-r-n [spelling].
Mr. HUBERT. And he was part of what organization?
Mr. RUBY. The Army Air Force--it was the Third Army Air Force based at Langley Field, Va.
Mr. HUBERT. But what was the specific organization in which he was in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, our outfit was called the Tenth Tow Target. They used to tow targets and train pilots at the same time for these anti-aircraft guns, to fire these guns behind the planes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you have anything else you want to bring out on any subject or matter of any nature that you think either the Commission or Mr. Hubert would be interested in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, all I know is that Jack had a very deep feeling about this anti-Semitism in this country and, of course, with the massacre of the 6 million Jews in Germany, and he had that on his mind quite a bit, and he was the most religious of the boys in the family. The brothers went to say prayers for my dad after he passed away for a full year, which is customary, of course, we went for a few months--the other brothers, but Jack is the one that went for a full year, and he observed going to the synagogue more regularly than the other brothers did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he, in fact, go to the synagogue regularly, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. Well, all I can say is that he went more regularly than the other brothers.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he used to call from there or when he would be talking, he would say he was going to the synagogue and he was coming from there, and in the conversation he would say he talked to the rabbi and he would call and say he was going there and we would invite him over for dinner or he would go early in the morning and we would invite him over for a late breakfast.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you think of anything else you want to develop or bring out?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. Now, there has never been, Mr. Ruby, any interview between you and me other than what took place in this room since this deposition began, is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So that all that has ever passed between you and me has been recorded in this room--right?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you very much. I'm glad to see you, Mr. Ruby, and I'm glad you came down.
Mr. RUBY. Thank you.
Mr. BURLESON. Thank you, Mr. Ruby, and I will see you outside in just a second.


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