TESTIMONY OF MARJORIE R. RICHEY

The testimony of Marjorie R. Richey was taken at 2:40 p.m., on July 21, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NW. Washington, D.C., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mr. Harold Richey also was present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It is customary in starting these depositions for the interrogator to introduce himself. My name is Burt Griffin. I am a member of the staff of the general counsel's office of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. The Commission has been authorized as a result of an Executive order issued by President Johnson November 29 and as a result of a joint resolution of Congress to investigate into and to report back to the President on all the facts surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy and the death of Lee Harvey Oswald. We have a set of procedures which have been set up by the Commission acting under the authority of the Executive order and the joint resolution, and under the procedures I have been given authority to take your deposition.
Now the general area of inquiry that we are going to be dealing with in particular this afternoon has to do with the death of Lee Harvey Oswald and most particularly what you, Mrs. Richey, know about Jack Ruby and any contacts you had with him in particular in the few days just before Oswald was killed. However, if you have any information that might be of use to the Commission in any other area that we are investigating, why of course, we would like very much to hear about it.
Did you receive a letter from the Commission requesting you to come here? Would you state for the record when you received that letter?
Mrs. RICHEY. I got two.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was the most recent?
Mrs. RICHEY. The first one was sent to Dallas. This was before Harold and I were married. You had better stop because I am wrong. Hal and I were married in December and I talked to the FBI before this, and they had my name Ethier, that was before I was married. They had my address in Dallas.So Hal and I moved up here. They sent the letter to my home in Texas and my sister signed for the letter, and then she called me and she sent it to me airmail special delivery. So I could read it myself, and it took 3 days.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What we are concerned about, of course, is the most recent letter that you got in connection with this appearance.
Mrs. RICHEY. This is it, and I got it yesterday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are entitled under the rules of the Commission to have written notice 3 days in advance of your appearing here.
Mrs. RICHEY. I wished I had known that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will ask you if, nonetheless, you are willing to go ahead.
Mrs. RICHEY. Oh; let's go ahead.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And give us the testimony. Do you have any questions before we start about the nature of the investigation?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; I don't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't know if there is anything that I could clarify for you. I think it fairly obvious from what I have said the general areas we are going to cover. Let me ask you to raise your right hand then and I will administer the oath to you. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; so help you God?
Mrs. RICHEY. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you give us your full name, please?
Mrs. RICHEY. Marjorie Ruth Richey.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you spell your last name?
Mrs. RICHEY. R-i-c-h-e-y.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where are you presently living, Mrs. Richey?
Mrs. RICHEY. In Mentor, Ohio.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When were you born?
Mrs. RICHEY. 1944.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you lived in Mentor, Ohio?

192

Mrs. RICHEY. About 6 months.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was your home before that?
Mrs. RICHEY. Irving, Tex.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you a native of Texas?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you live in Irving, Tex.?
Mrs. RICHEY. The previous address, the last one that we lived at was 134 West Lively.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you living on November 22, 1963?
Mrs. RICHEY. 2215 Cunningham.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that also Irving, Tex.?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At that time were you employed by Jack Ruby?
Mrs. RICHEY Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the nature of your employment with him?
Mrs. RICHEY. I was a waitress.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What club did you work at?
Mrs. RICHEY. Carousel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long had you worked for Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. RICHEY. Since June of the same year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you ever worked for him before?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you work for him continuously from June Until November 22?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you work every night of the week or did you have some nights off?
Mrs. RICHEY. Sometimes I worked every night and sometimes I got a night off. Never a regular day off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you on a salary?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How were you paid?
Mrs. RICHEY. Tips. That is what we earned our money by, tips.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many other waitresses were there normally at the Carousel Club?
Mrs. RICHEY. Before this happened?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before the 22d of November; yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. Generally three or four.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And were they all paid on a tip basis?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us any idea of what your normal amount of tips would be that you would get in a week?
Mrs. RICHEY. In a week?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. It varied so much.
Mr. RICHEY. May I ask a question, please?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sure.
Mr. RICHEY. This testimony she is giving to you now on the amount of money that she earned, can this be used by Internal Revenue?
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you would rather not talk about it, it is all going to be a matter of record, and if this is an area that you would rather not go into----
Mr. RICHEY. It is not that. It is just as you know none of these girls pay taxes and they can come back on this.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's not go into this then. What I am trying to get at is to get some idea of what the people who worked for Ruby were making.
Mrs. RICHEY. I was telling the truth though. It really varies. Some nights you may make a dollar and the next night you may make $50. It just depends.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you think there were nights when you made as much as $50?
Mrs. RICHEY. I never did but I mean there were waitresses that did, but they had been, you know, working as waitresses a lot longer than I had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What were your hours at the Carousel Club?
Mrs. RICHEY. 7:30 to about 1:30.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time did the shows start at the club?

193

Mrs. RICHEY. 9 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you come to work on the night of Thursday, November 21? That is the night before President Kennedy arrived in town.
Mrs. RICHEY. Oh, gosh, I don't know really.
Mr. GRIFFIN. President Kennedy was assassinated on Friday. Do you have any present recollection of having been there?
Mrs. RICHEY. I must have probably.
Mr. RICHEY. Yes; you worked there a week before I left. I worked on the 20th.
Mrs. RICHEY. Then I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it from what you said though that November 21 was not a night when you remembered anything in particular about what happened?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where you aware before the President arrived in Dallas that he was coming to Dallas?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't even really know that for sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any recollection of having talked with Jack Ruby or Jack Ruby ever having mentioned anything about the President's coming to Dallas?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you familiar with a dancer by the name of Tammi True?
Mrs. RICHEY. I knew her as a speaking acquaintance, but as far as really being friendly with her, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall that during the week before the President was assassinated, that Tammi quit her job or left her employment with Mr. Ruby?
Mrs. RICHEY. I know she quit; but I can't say that it was right there in that week. I can't remember these things.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us what you remember about the circumstances under which she quit?
Mrs. RICHEY. Under which she quit?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Did she have an argument with Mr. Ruby or what was the reason that you know about?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know really. I don't remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Directing your attention to the day that the President was killed which is Friday, November 22, do you remember where you were at the time that you first learned President Kennedy had been shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. I was in bed asleep.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how did it come to your attention?
Mrs. RICHEY. My mother was watching "As the World Turns" and she woke me and she says, "The President's been shot" and I said, "huh." And she said, "Yea." I said, "You are kidding" and she said, "come here and see it. It is on the TV." I had just got in there and then they were down there, the reporters and all were down there, and that is where I was at.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the first contact you had that day on the 22d with anybody associated with the Carousel Club?
Mrs. RICHEY. With Andrew I guess. I am not real sure. Now I can't be positive about these things. I remember more after he was killed because I was asked questions about it, you know, about the days afterwards. But before they didn't ask me and they don't stick in my mind.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Maybe my question isn't clear. I am asking you after you heard that the President had been shot----
Mrs. RICHEY. The President had been shot?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; when did you next hear from or talk to somebody connected with the club?
Mrs. RICHEY. I must have talked to the man that kept bar, because I think that I called him and asked him if we were going to be open that night because it was saying that the rest of the clubs were going to be closed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was that man?
Mrs. RICHEY. Andrew Armstrong.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall where you telephoned him at?
Mrs. RICHEY. At his home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he--- you have any clear recollection of this?

194

Mrs. RICHEY. I remember that I talked to Andrew but I don't remember if I talked to someone else before. Okay.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you first learn that the clubs were going to be closed?
Mrs. RICHEY. Well, I must have talked to Andrew two or three times that day because he didn't know for sure or not. No, that wasn't right; or was it. Wait, I've got to think a minute.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Take your time.
Mrs. RICHEY. I talked to Jack the night before he killed Lee Harvey Oswald. I talked to Jack over the phone, and he told me that the clubs were going to be closed, but I thought it was on a Saturday night. Didn't he kill Oswald on a Sunday?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right.
Mrs. RICHEY. Well, I can't remember now. I told the FBI and they know the real date and I can't even remember right now if it was Friday night or Saturday night that I talked to him?
Mr. GRIFFIN. You indicate on the 26th of November when you talked with the FBI that you talked to Ruby around noon on Saturday, the 23d.
Mrs. RICHEY. That is the day after the President was shot, so that was Saturday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. So that is right. I talked to him the day before. But I don't think it was noon and I don't think I told him it was noon. It seems like it was later in the evening. It may not have been. I can't really remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's think about Friday. I am trying to get at what you might have learned about the clubs on Friday. Did you go to work on Friday?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember that either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do the evening that the President was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. No, we were closed; yes, because we were closed on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Mr. RICHEY. If I can help, you called me. You had called me.
Mrs. RICHEY. On the Friday? I am sure now. I almost positive that we were closed on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, because everything else was closed. I am pretty sure that they were closed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your husband suggested that you called him sometime?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On Friday. What do you remember about that telephone conversation?
Mrs. RICHEY. Nothing. I mean he was watching television. No, did I call you then? Are you sure?
Mr. RICHEY. You called me late Friday afternoon.
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember that either. I remember talking to you when Jack shot Lee Oswald. I am sorry.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any recollection whether on Friday you knew that the clubs were going to be closed for all 3 days?
Mrs. RICHEY. I am pretty sure. No, our club was going to be closed. If I am not mistaken they were closed on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first learn that it was going to be closed for 3 days?
Mrs. RICHEY. I think Andrew must have called me Friday and told me that we were going to close that night, and then the next day I called him to find out. It seems like that is the way it was, that I called him to find out if we were going to work and he told me to call Jack and I called Jack and Jack told me that we were going to be closed Saturday and Sunday. If I am not mistaken that is the way it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you call Jack?
Mrs. RICHEY. At his apartment.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you have indicated that you think it was sometime other than noon?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't be real sure. To me right now it seems like that it was later than noon. It may not have been. I am not real sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you think your recollection on the 26th of November about it would have been better than it is now?

195

Mrs. RICHEY. Oh, definitely; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you. Some people I think perhaps who knew Jack were upset and nervous and perhaps didn't really remember accurately, weren't able to accurately state what did happen when they were first interviewed. Were you so nervous and upset about it that you wouldn't have remembered accurately on the 26th of November what you had done on Saturday? What was your state of mind?
Mrs. RICHEY. I was pretty shaken up, I know that. It is a pretty terrible thing to have happened, so close to you, you just don't think it can.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me mark for identification here what is a report of an interview which two agents of the FBI, Peggs and Zimmerman, had with you on November 26. I am going to mark that Marjorie R. Richey Deposition Exhibit No. 1, July 21, 1964, Washington, D.C.
(The document referred to was marked Marjorie R. Richey Deposition Exhibit No. 1 for identification.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will give you a chance to read it. Look that over and see if that interview report refreshes your recollection in any way.
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't believe I said "several years ago."
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you read the sentence that you are referring to?
Mrs. RICHEY. It says:
"Mrs. Ethier has been working at the Carousel since"--no, that is wrong. "She first met Jack Ruby several years ago through her sister."
I don't think I said several years ago, because I know now I might have said that but I know that it wasn't several years, I am sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long before the 22d of November, 1963, did you think you met Jack?
Mrs. RICHEY. About a year before that, because Janice, we call her Nice and Janice had been working there for about a year I think. Now these aren't accurate dates, but about a year. I don't believe I said several years. I may have. I mean like you said I might have been upset and I was nervous. As far as I know except for that "several years" that is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then is it your best recollection at this time that it is accurate that you called Jack Ruby about noon on Saturday?
Mrs. RICHEY. That is something else I can't be sure about. It may have been noon. I just don't remember. To me it seemed later than that, but it may not have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now how long did you talk with Jack on that occasion?
Mrs. RICHEY. Not but just a few minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember anything he said to you?
Mrs. RICHEY. I remember I called him and I said, "Jack, this is Margie." He said, "Yes." and I said, "Could you tell me if we are going to be open tonight?" and he said, "No, isn't it terrible?" and I said, "Do you mean about the President?" and he said, "Yes." and his voice was shaking and this isn't like him.
I mean it really was. And then I said, "Well, we are not going to be open." because I didn't want to go into it because that is what everybody was talking about, and I, you know. So then he said, "No, we won't be open tonight or tomorrow night."
"Sunday night" I believe is what he said. We were always open 7 days a week and this was unusual to me because Jack very seldom ever closed the club. So I mean this is why I can pretty well remember this. I could see him staying closed one night, but the other two clubs in Dallas were opening, so I figured you know that he would.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you know that they were?
Mrs. RICHEY. It was in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you checked the newspaper before you called him?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember that. I must have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In Irving do you get a Dallas paper?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you subscribe to a Dallas paper at that time?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't remember that. I lived with my parents at the time that this happened, and if there was a Dallas morning newspaper there, well

196

then it could have been before noon. But if there wasn't a morning newspaper there it had to be a Times Herald and that comes in the afternoon, and I don't remember which paper I read.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now on Friday or Saturday did you talk with any other people connected with the Carousel Club except for Andy Armstrong and Jack Ruby?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Little Lynn?
Mrs. RICHEY. No. I don't know any of the showgirls. I mean the only girls that I was friendly with at all was the other waitresses. I mean I would talk to them, you know, like that, but as far as really you know, knowing them or anything like that, well I didn't. It was just the other waitresses. And I may have talked to Bonny or Becky, I don't remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to or see Jack Ruby again after----
Mrs. RICHEY. After I talked to him on Saturday?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Since then have you talked with anyone or learned anything about when Jack first got the idea about shooting Lee Oswald?
Mrs. RICHEY. We talked this at the club. I mean everybody was talking about it. But as far as anybody saying that--when he was going to shoot Oswald or anything like this, I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Kathy Kay at all?
Mrs. RICHEY. No. In fact I think I just saw Kathy Kay one time after the club was reopened--was all that I saw her.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn't she come back to work?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; she didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long had she been working there?
Mrs. RICHEY. Longer than I had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you think it was unusual that she didn't come back to work?
Mrs. RICHEY. Well, not really. She went with a policeman in Dallas, so to me I think this, you know, he would have probably felt that this would look bad on him for Kathy working there. This was my impression, I mean.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know this policeman that she was going with?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know his name and I doubt if I'd know him if I saw him today, but I mean he had come in the club and I remember he was a real tall guy, nice built, but I don't even remember his name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it your understanding that she was living with this policeman before the 22d of November?
Mrs. RICHEY. That was my impression.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you get that impression?
Mrs. RICHEY. Other girls talking.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know where they were living?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you heard anything to the effect that they were living near Jack?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she come to work at all after, Kathy Kay? Did she come to work at all to your recollection after Jack shot Oswald?
Mrs. RICHEY. I quit work the day before New Year's, wasn't it, because I wouldn't work New Year's night--yes, and from the time that Oswald was killed--the time I quit--she hadn't worked again, but I had seen her one time, and I believe that she had come after her costumes, but I can't even be real sure about that but it seems like that is why she was there and she was crying. I remember that. I don't know why she was crying. Now she talked to some of the other waitresses but I never did find out why she was crying.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us the names of the other waitresses who talked with her?
Mrs. RICHEY. Was Dianna a waitress? Let me clarify myself. Dianna is a waitress; but she also was a showgirl.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that Dianna Hunter?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes; he knows them better than I do. She also worked as a waitress and a showgirl too. Now this is the only one that I know anything

197

about, but like I say only the waitresses. And I believe she talked to her. It seems like there was two, but I don't remember the other one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you actually see Kathy Kay crying or did you hear that she was?
Mrs. RICHEY. I sat down at the table that they were sitting at. It seems like there was three girls sitting there and I sat down and somebody came in the door and I got up. She had a Kleenex and a cup of coffee or tea or something in a cup and she was wiping tears away.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long was that after Oswald was shot; how many days?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember that; not even approximately. It couldn't have been too long though. I don't even know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first go to work after Oswald was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't remember if I went to work Monday or Tuesday. The same night the club opened I went back to work, and I can't remember now if that was the following Monday. It seems like it was, but it may have been Tuesday. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. By the following Monday you mean the very next day?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or the day after.
Mrs. RICHEY. The same week that it happened.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see this boy friend that Kathy Kay was going with at all after Oswald was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Little Lynn continue to work at the club after Oswald was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she work there until you left in January?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; she quit before I quit. Now I don't know when she quit, but she quit before I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know why she quit?
Mrs. RICHEY. Well, I don't know why she quit; but that was the same day--something was in the newspapers about her and right now I don't remember what it was, because there was quite a bit about her in the newspaper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that the time she carried the gun into the courtroom?
Mrs. RICHEY. That might have been it. I don't remember really, because there was one time that she was kidnaped or lost or ran away or something and they get confused in my mind and I am not real sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with her, Little Lynn that is, at all after Oswald was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. If I did I don't remember what was said or if I even did talk to her. I am not real sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you heard anything which would indicate what information she may have had that Ruby was going to shoot Oswald?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; I hadn't even heard anything to that effect.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you heard anything about how she happened to make the telephone call to Ruby? Did you know that she made a telephone call to Ruby early Sunday morning?
Mrs. RICHEY. For rent?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. Isn't that why she called him? I read that in the paper?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever talk with her about it?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear any of her story about why she called him?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; that was the only reason I knew was that she needed some rent, and the way it went in the paper was that Jack went down to the telegraph office before he went to shoot Oswald to send her the money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a repetitive question. I ask you again do you recall on Friday or Saturday seeing anybody else from the Carousel Club besides Jack Ruby?
Mrs. RICHEY. I didn't see anybody.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or talking. You didn't see anybody and you didn't talk to anybody besides----

198

Mrs. RICHEY. Not unless it was Bonny or Becky and I may have talked to them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who are Bonny or Becky?
Mrs. RICHEY. They are waitresses at the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is Bonny's last name?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know. Becky's is Jones.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So at the time on the 22d there were four waitresses at the club, Dianna Hunter, Becky Jones, Bonny and yourself?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember if Dianna was dancing or if she was waitressing. I am not real sure about that even right now. She was doing one or the other. She was there. I just can't remember which one it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well now did the girls, while they were employed as dancers, also serve as waitresses to some extent?
Mrs. RICHEY. There was one girl that did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was that?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember her name. The first time I ever met her, she was an amateur dancer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack employing her as an amateur?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes; but then sometimes she'd work as waitress and then one night one of the girls didn't show up or something. I think this was on a Sunday night. This was before this happened I mean, and one of the girls didn't show up and Jack asked her if she would dance, and I think she danced, and we had three shows, I mean you know, it was continuous, but it was three shows, and she danced. And then--you will have to pardon me, I have to recollect this in my mind.
Then it seems like she come back down after she got through dancing and was waitressing some more, and she did I think until her next number, and then Jack told her that I could handle the floor by myself. And I can't remember if Dianna ever waitressed and danced at the same time. I don't remember that. She might have. Just right now I can't remember but that girl I happen to know because I was working by myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did the dancers mix with the customers in between their acts?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And am I correct in assuming that the purpose of this was to induce the customers to buy drinks and so forth?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did the customers buy drinks for the girls as well as for themselves?
Mrs. RICHEY. The only thing you can buy in Texas, I don't know if you know this, is setups and champagne. You can't buy liquor across the bar. And so if they were drinking, well you know they had a bottle, and if not they had bought, you know, drinks for the girls, too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember an incident that occurred with Jack's stripper Jada? Can you tell us about that?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't give you details on it. I can tell you what I know about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us what you observed, not what you heard from other people but what you actually saw take place.
Mrs. RICHEY. What I saw Jada do?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. She was from New Orleans, and she kind of danced a little bit different from what I was used to seeing. I don't know how you would explain it. A G-string, is that what you call it, she popped it, if I can make you understand what I am talking about, and I saw her do this one time, and Jack would cut the lights out on her and she'd get mad. Now this is what they had the fight about, because Jack would shut the lights out on her when she got too dirty for him. I mean he'd just shut the lights out. And so if I am not mistaken this is what they kept arguing about. Finally they went to court one night. But this was because that she had popped her G-string again. But I didn't see it that night. Becky did, and she went down to court with him and they were gone quite awhile. But Jada won and he had to pay her and then she left. And that was Jada.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack threaten her or hit her in any way?

199

Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know if he hit her.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he threaten her in any way?
Mrs. RICHEY. You have got to understand I'm working there while all this is going and I can't recall him saying anything. I don't even know if he hit her, because her dressing room was like this and then back down, and so it was, you know, you couldn't see it from where we worked. And I know they were hollering. But now I can't tell you what they were saying. I just know they were kind of raising their voices.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you seen her snap this G-string on more than one occasion?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; I just happened to see her this one time and that was the first night she was ever there that she did this, and then she was wearing less than what the other girls were wearing, and Jack made her get a different little dohickey more.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now she started work there in the middle of the summer, didn't she?
Mrs. RICHEY. She couldn't have started in the middle of the summer. She didn't come until after I was working there, and I know it was after I was working there but I don't remember the date.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You started in June?
Mrs. RICHEY. I started in June.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall if Jada was there by Labor Day?
Mrs. RICHEY. Labor Day is in September; isn't it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't remember. I remember she was a big draw card. I mean you know people really came to see her for awhile there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This incident with the G-string though, you saw it in the very first act?
Mrs. RICHEY. The very first time she was ever up there, I mean you know we'd heard so much about the big great Jada and we were really thinking boy this is going to be different; and it was. But here Jack told her that she couldn't do that, that she'd have to get more clothes on than what she had on. She couldn't do that in Texas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she then put on more clothes?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can't remember if she did the same night or not but I know finally she did get some little other things.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have troubles with her though after the first night?
Mrs. RICHEY. They were generally fussing about a lot of things. I mean I don't remember what they are, but that was the one thing that I know was the big thing as far as I know. But the rest of the things I don't know. I mean he'd fuss at her because she's late and it seems like she went to New Orleans one time for her son or something like this, and she didn't get back, and he kind of got mad about this. But that is all I remember them fussing about is just those two incidents, and her being late.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you notice anything about Jack in the 2 or 3 months before he shot Oswald that would indicate that he was more or less disturbed about things in general than he had been on other occasions?
Mrs. RICHEY. No; I don't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Jack's behavior in the month, would you say that Jack's behavior in the month or so before the President arrived was typical of his behavior at other times?
Mrs. RICHEY. I didn't pay particular attention, but I mean to me it seems like that this wasn't any change at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall any arguments or differences of opinion that he had with any of his MC's, masters of ceremony?
Mrs. RICHEY. Wally Weston.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was that?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know what it.was. I just remember that Wally was a good MC. I mean he was the best that they had ever had, and something happened and I don't know what it was, but Wally either quit or got fired, and I was there the night that he quit, but they were hollering, and when Jack hollers you don't understand what he is saying because he has got a little bit of an accent

200

and it kind of goes, you know, all together. To me he has an accent. To somebody else he might not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did this occur?
Mrs. RICHEY. You ask dates and I can't tell you dates.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how long before the President was shot?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know. I don't have any idea.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it as much as 3 months?
Mrs. RICHEY. I can tell you the the MC's we had after him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, who were the MC's?
Mrs. RICHEY. Sal Vincent. Remember the guy that sang----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Johnny Turner?
Mrs. RICHEY. I believe it was. Yes; he is the one that had it, what do you call it, dummies, ventriloquist. There was one that was there now, that was after.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Bill DeMur come in? Do you remember Bill DeMur?
Mrs. RICHEY. Yes; he was there before. Yes; Bill DeMur, but he was there before and after. I mean he was there when this happened. Was Sal there before? Come to think of it----
Mr. GRIFFIN. The short fat man you are talking about?
Mrs. RICHEY. The one with the toupee, the stupid man. He wasn't there before? Oh, I thought he was. He knows about as much as I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anyhow----
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't remember the date though.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Wally Weston leave as a result of this argument?
Mrs. RICHEY. I don't know if it was this argument. Maybe it was because he wouldn't let Shafi, his wife, come back. She was a dancer there. Shari Angel. I don't know, it seems like that was why they were arguing, because he wouldn't let Shari come back, but I am not even real sure about that, but I remember that was an argument between them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever express in your presence any opinions about Earl Norman?
Mrs. RICHEY. No. Earl worked there one week, but he never said anything to me about Earl.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see anybody at the Carousel Club who in any way resembled Lee Oswald?
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I haven't got any further questions at this point, so if there is anything that you would like to tell us, is there anything that I haven't covered that you think we should know about?
Mrs. RICHEY. No, you have covered about all of it. I am afraid I haven't been much help because I have tried to put this out of my mind. I want to try to forget it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think you have been very helpful to us and I want to thank you for coming all this distance for a short period of time like this. I hope you enjoy your stay in Washington.
Mrs. RICHEY. We are leaving right away. Could you tell me if I will be called again?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No. Yes; I can tell you the answer is that you won't be called. I don't expect that there will be any reason to call you. Excuse me; there is one thing I want to do before we finish here. I have marked Exhibit 1 for identification as previously indicated in the record, and I want to ask you if you have read it over and if you have any other changes to make other than the ones that you mentioned as you read it.
Mrs. RICHEY. Let me read it again. This says here that Janice was just a cocktail waitress, and she was just a waitress. "Several years," I can't remember, I haven't known him that long.
I didn't know him that long at that time. I may have said that then. I won't say that I didn't. And the noon; to me it seems like that it was later and it may have been or it may not have been. I am not really sure about that either. And that is about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, if that is satisfactory then I would like you to to take this pencil and sign it down there by my name.

201

Mrs. RICHEY. Where is your name?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I haven't put my name on. Just sign it right where I have marked it.
Mrs. RICHEY. These things won't matter then that is in here?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No, we have corrected it in the record and the record will reflect it.
Mrs. RICHEY. Do you want me to sign it Margie?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any way you ordinarily sign it is all right.
Mrs. RICHEY. Margie.
Mr. RICHEY. How do you go about getting a copy of the record?
Mr. GRIFFIN. We have some provision for giving it to you at whatever expense it is. I don't know what it is, but you are entitled to a copy of it. We will send a copy of this out to you people in Cleveland, probably to the U.S. attorney's office in Cleveland, and ask you to come in and read it.
Mrs. RICHEY. Again?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Read the transcript that we are making here.
Mrs. RICHEY. And then I sign it just like I have signed this?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right. If there are any mistakes.
Mrs. RICHEY. It won't be this long so it will be a little bit clear in my mind.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't think you will have any trouble but every once in a while there is some mistake that creeps into the record. Not too many. So we would like you to come in and read it over and then sign it and return it to us. Then you can get a copy of that and arrangements can be made to purchase it through us, or the testimony is going to be printed and memorialized and there will be many thousands of copies of this made.
Mrs. RICHEY. This will be?
Mr. GRIFFIN. This will be sent all around the country. All the libraries in the major cities will certainly have them, but if you want a personal copy, why we can have one made up.
Mr. RICHEY. The town I come from the people aren't very broadminded.
Mrs. RICHEY. There is not very many Richeys around.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There will be volumes and volumes of this testimony. I might ask your husband just one question. You are here and you are not under oath and you aren't obliged to answer it, but since you are here I will ask you if there is anything that you would like to contribute as a result of having heard this deposition?
Mr. RICHEY. As you could gather, I knew Jack Ruby myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. RICHEY. I spoke with him the night before I left for home, which is the night before President Kennedy was killed, and he seemed normal.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you see him?
Mr. RICHEY. At the club. I was sitting there at the club waiting for Margie to finish work. He come up, sat alongside me, asked what I thought of the job. And to me of course in my own opinion he was always off somewhere in his mind. He asked me a question but he didn't listen to my answer. He was thinking of something else completely, which is just talking. This is the impression the man gave me in the first place.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long were you at the club Thursday night?
Mr. RICHEY. Oh, I worked at a liquor store in Dallas.
Mrs. RICHEY. No.
Mr. RICHEY. I got out of the Army that Thursday and I spent that whole evening----
Mrs. RICHEY. No, Wednesday, the 20th, and you left Thursday morning so you didn't see Jack.
Mr. RICHEY. Wednesday night I spent the night at the club. This is the night that I talked to Jack Ruby. That is right; I am sorry. And the President was shot the following day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You spent Wednesday night at the club. About how long were you there?
Mr. RICHEY. Most of the whole night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with Jack on that occasion?

202

Mr. RICHEY. Oh, just a couple minutes. It wasn't very busy if I can remember, and he come up and sat alongside of me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he mention anything to you about the fact that the President was coming to town?
Mr. RICHEY. No. I was aware myself that the President was coming, but I didn't know he was coming to Dallas because they were expecting him at Fort Hood, Tex. They kind of had a feeling he might stop in. They were getting ready for this big inspection, but I didn't know he was coming to Dallas. This was a surprise to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have anything else that you can think of?
Mr. RICHEY. No, I don't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to thank you both again, and I hope you have a pleasant trip back.